I read somewhere that Olympic Arms made a bunch of 30 carbine uppers for Isreal back in the 90s. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180-grain jacketed soft point round nose bullets. Therefore, the M1 carbine is significantly less powerful than the M1 Garand. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. Commonly known asthe Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. Hornady Custom: 2018 fps. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). The .401 WSL fired a 200 grain .406caliber soft point bullet at 2,140 feet per second for a walloping 2,034 ft-lbs of energy. The .30 Carbine uses a lighter bullet (110 grain versus 165 grain) and improved powder. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester cartridge you're looking at purchasing. And the Winner Is bumping this, I obtained a magazine for the first one shown up top - for a mere $64. Posted February 22, 2017 in Ammunition, AR-15, Daily News, Guns & Gear, Other Gear & Gadgets, Rifles by Nathaniel F with 123 CommentsTags: .30 carbine, 7.62, 7.62x33, assault rifle, ballistics, carbine, drop, Education, energy, history, M2, performance, personal defense weapon, rifle, second world war, us carbine m1 .30 cal, velocity, world war 2, world war ii, ww2, wwII, Left to right: .351 WSL, .30 M1 Carbine, .45 ACP, 5.7x28mm SS190, 5.56x45mm M193. Most have had an active life in the woods earning their keep, not being just stored away in the closet. . Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. Single trigger 14.25 LOP with Winchester red recoil pad. It puts down Whitetail deer and wild hogs quite nicely. 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonchannel 13 weather girl pregnant; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonphiladelphia inmate mugshots; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonhanalei hat company; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonpan peninsula canary wharf service charge 351 winchester vs 35 remington. A 10 mph crosswind will move the bullet 8.9 inches and 21.6 inches at those distances. Read today's "The Armed Citizen" entry for real stories of law-abiding citizens, past and present, who used their firearms to save lives. Gun #: 943226118 . One would think the 32WSL, 35 WSL, 351 WSL and 401 WSL would still be in use today. Both the Legend and the .30-30 are most comfortable in the medium-to-large-game category, but the .30-30 offers a slightly wider array of bullet weights and applications. *We Never share your email without your permission. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. Grizzly bears have been shot with 357 Mag. I think if enough people went online and contacted Winchester and Hornady, and asked them to make up a run of ammo in 351 WSL and 401 WSL in 20 round boxes, perhaps they would make a limited run. THE USUAL CRACKS IN THE FORE END. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. Oddly, its bullet diameter is truly .351-inch instead of the .358-inch normally associated with rounds such as .35 Whelen, .35 Winchester or .35 Remington. The 401 WSL would seem to have been a good choice for a large caliber AR 15, but they came out with the 450 Bushmaster instead. Its overall length was 35.6 inches; it weighed 5.2 pounds, had a barrel length of 18 . The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. Perhaps thats how it should be, the masses rarely embrace true greatness. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. & scope has rust alon WINCHESTER 21 12GA 30 F/M. A standard .30 Carbine ball bullet weighs 110 grains (7.1g); a complete loaded round weighs 195 grains (12.6g) and has a muzzle velocity of 1,990ft/s (610m/s), giving it 967ftlbf (1,311 joules) of energy when fired from the M1 carbine's 18-inch barrel. It was designed to improve the range and stopping power of the M1 carbine. The .30 Carbine, for all practical purposes, is a scaled-down Winchester .351 SL. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. Shortly before World War II, the U.S. Army started a "light rifle" project to provide support personnel and rear area units a weapon with more firepower and accuracy than the standard issue M1911A1 .45 ACP handgun and half the weight of the standard issue M1 Garand .30-06 rifle or the .45 ACP Thompson submachine gun. His was in pretty good shape. Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. We offer rifle ammo in a number of calibers including 223 REMINGTON, 30 CARBINE, 300 WIN MAG, 307 WIN, 308 WIN, 375 WINCHESTER, 5.45 X 39MM, 7X64MM and more. Mag. At the same time though, the Remington Model 8 also kicks a lot more than you would expect considering the rather mild calibers they were chambered for. WINCHESTER 30-30 M#94. As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. Yeah. you can refer to it as "self loading" instead of semi auto and still have that "special feeling". In some ways, the United States military decided this Caliber Battle in 1957. GI#: 102196509. The first trigger housing used with an M1 Carbine was a modified Winchester M1907 trigger housing used in Winchester's first prototype submission to the Ordnance "light rifle" trials in August 1941. Folks tend to duck when they hear the slide action put into play!! There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. The AR 15 would be good for the 401 WSL. We offer cheap ammo and bulk ammo deals on the most popular ammo calibers. The Taurus Raging Thirty and AMT AutoMag III were also offered in .30 Carbine.[10]. Winchester introduced the .351 SL in the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Winchester Model 1905 and the .35 SL. Other firms and individual designers submitted several carbine designs, but most prototypes were either unreliable or grossly off the target weight of five pounds. Comments have to be approved before showing up, 2023 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info & Chart. cartridgethe .351 Winchester Self-Loadingthat was substantially longer and more powerful than its .35-cal. This is an Oviedo 1916 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. This gun is in excellent condition in its orignal hardcase with keys. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Probably over half the Model 1907 and 1910 rifles Ive examined over the years have a cracked forearm. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. from a 20" barrel. Federal only offers two bullet weights for the Legend (160 grain and 180 grain). Its not a long-range powerhouse by any means, but it can be loaded with more aerodynamic .30-caliber bullets that offer higher ballistic coefficients (BC). While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. If you broaden your search to the World Wide Web, most online carriers offer twice as many .30-30 options. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for . Due to its blowback action, the rifle kicks like a mule. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. Particularly not with all of the various chamberings and uppers you can get on the AR platform these days. The story of the .351 Winchester and the .401 Winchester Self-Loading cartridges began with the Winchester Model 1903 rifle chambered in the unique .22 Automatic Winchester Rimfire cartridge. A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). revolvers, so why wouldnt a 35 WSL or 351 WSL not be good for hunting? and .32 Rem. Lots of people seem to enjoy beating their head against a wall. One of the oldest and most popular cartridges of all time, the .30-30 Winchester, was released in 1895 and has been bringing down all manner of game ever since. Army Ordnance Major Rene Studler persuaded Winchester that the Winchester M2 .30-06 rifle, a design started by Ed Browning and perfected by Winchester engineers including Marshall "Carbine" Williams, could be scaled down for the .30 Carbine cartridge. Probably well over half of the production for the last ten years went to police organizations in the United States. This is the Winchester model 1906 .22 LR pump action 20 in. USOG 60.7K subscribers Subscribe 40K views 4 years ago Join me for a look at another great investment rifle. I can remember reading that years ago in hunting magazines that the Model 1910 was popular in Alaska, that even Barnes Bullets made .406 bullets for reloading the 401 WSL. The .30 SL was an entirely conservative design, which hastened development considerably. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. Why cant we love the .35? Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .30 M1 Carbine round averages out to 960 ft-lb, while a .30-30 Winchester round averages out to about 1890 ft-lb. WOOD HAS A REPAIR AT THE WRIST. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. The .32 Self-Loading fired a 165 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (708 ft-lbs of energy) and the .35 Self-Loading fired a 180 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (772 ft-lbs of energy). It is capable of driving a. 26" Barrel. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. It went through 1,232 rounds without incident. "[8] The evaluation also reported that "[c]ommanders noted that it took two to three engagements at least to settle their men to the automatic feature of the carbine so that they would not greatly waste ammunition under the first impulse of engagement. Mag. "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 68-70, "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 88-96, ".351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.351_Winchester_Self-Loading&oldid=1149960777, This page was last edited on 15 April 2023, at 14:17. OVERALL LENGTH 38? These cartridges are remarkably similar from a ballistics standpoint, but the .30-30s slightly better long-distance performance gives it the edge in this category. and the 6.5 mm Rem. I read back in the 1980s a couple of gunsmith were doing conversation of 30 Carbine rifles to 45 Win. The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to those of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullets. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. Apr 21, 2013. appearance wise, i am partial to the Winchester M94. Cold Shower Face And Body Wipes | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Review: Taurus G3 Tactical | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Video Review: Browning Citori Hunter Grade II Over/Under Shotgun | NRA Family, Video Review: Savage 93 Minimalist Rifle | NRA Family, Video Review: Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 4.5 OSP in 10mm Auto | NRA Family, Make Mine Metal: The Alloy-Frame KelTec P15 | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Smith & Wesson Performance Center M&P9 M2.0 Competitor | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, NRA Women | New for 2022: 20-Gauge Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus, Preview: Springfield Armory 1911 DS Double-Stack 9 mm Pistol Lineup | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Hornady Critical Defense: 1990 fps. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. We are also beginning to deliver those bullets as components. When the 357 Magnum revolvers came out, hunters used it to take an assortment of big and dangerous game. Among Federals offerings, the highest BC for a .350 Legend is .259 while the highest BC for a .30-30 is .313. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. Neither Winchester cartridge was truly suitable for anything larger than small deer, and that might have been pushing it. The Ruger Blackhawk revolver chambered for the .30 Carbine round has been in the catalogs since the late 1960s. However, as a bottleneck cartridge, the .30-30 has a slight advantage at longer ranges. It seems to me that this would be a good time to bring back these cartridges in a modern semi auto or compact bolt action rifle. A postwar U.S. Army evaluation reported that "[t]here are practically no data bearing on the accuracy of the carbine at ranges in excess of 50 yards. A blowback action in the most basic autoloading action. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. The .351 is a great urban defense cartridge, but ammo supplies are extremely limited, and so is magazine capacity. 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